Transitioning Careers Despite Uncertainty with Bobby Umar

Bobby professional speaker and coach, Inc top 100 Leadership speaker, 5 times Ted X speaker, CEO – Discover Your Personal brand.

It can be scary making a career transition, especially when there is so much uncertainty in the world. But as Bobby Umar, professional speaker and coach, knows: discover your personal brand, and the transition will be much easier. “Your personal brand is what people say about you when you’re not in the room,” Bobby explains. “It’s how you are known.” And discover your personal brand begins with understanding yourself- your values, your passions, your strengths and weaknesses. Once you know who you are, it becomes much easier to find a career that aligns with your personal brand. So if you’re feeling overwhelmed by a career transition, take a step back and discover your personal brand. It just might make the transition a little bit easier.

Nathaniel Schooler and Bobby Umar discussed:
Dealing with uncertainty
Dealing with overwhelm in life
Personal branding to manage uncertainty

Personal branding is essential in today’s fast-paced world. It allows you to control how others see you and what they expect from you. When you have a strong personal brand, people are less likely to waste your time with frivolous requests or unimportant tasks. Instead, they will respect your time and focus on more productive pursuits. As a result, building your personal brand can be a powerful way to reduce time wasted and increase your productivity.

Learn more about what to say to time-wasters here.

Here is a good example of a great personal brand here.

You can learn how to become an entrepreneur here.

Full transcriptions can be found below the blog.

You can find Nat Schooler here:

You can book Bobby Umar to Speak Here.

Are you transitioning careers despite the uncertain economy, which seems to be on a downward spiral? It doesn’t mean that a new job is not for you. There are millions of job seekers out there just like us who are transitioning even if it feels like the world’s crashing down.

The questions remain: How do I deal with uncertainty when changing careers?

You may not like your current job

We’ve all been there–we hate our current job. We can’t wait to leave, but we still have to pay the bills. I’ve been there and done that so that career transition out of a job you hate becomes even more difficult because career transition requires a financial cushion and changing career requires us to focus on ourselves and not necessarily on what’s going on around us–that’s where overwhelm comes in.

Let’s look at ways we can feel more confident about a career transition despite uncertainty:

Consider your personal brand as an asset in your career transition

We’ve tried to stress personal branding over the past few years as a way to manage life during any type of economic downturn or uncertainty. Your personal brand should be seen as an asset–a renewable resource that will always grow that companies will want to hire. Leveraging your personal brand is crucial, learn more here:

Personal Branding When Working For A Corporation and The Ultimate Guide To Personal Branding To Win

How To Transition Careers: Tips Before, During and After

Choosing a job is not permanent. Change in interest could lead to a change in career path or industry. Making definite plans for a career change are important. We provide advice about preparing your online brand for transitioning careers in the interview and in many of the other blogs on the site.

You have so many transferable skills from your previous job, so many valuable skills, soft skills, to ensure you pull off a successful transition you must focus on your strengths, whatever career you are aiming for you can change careers at any age, just ensuring that you focus on your strengths when speaking with other industry professionals and human resources managers really helps.

Business development skills are absolutely crucial if you are looking to get a sales job. Whether you are transitioning from a sales career into a new direction or you are looking to utilise your transferable skills outlining your new career goals when putting your personal brand plan together is key to obtaining that new career that really makes you tick.

Take the time in your job search to think deeply about the cover letter, think about the sort of skills they may be looking for and approach someone at the company to perhaps ask for guidance in how changing careers and entering this new career is something you are looking at doing and how you would really appreciate their help,

Taking up a new challenge and changing careers can be scary, however, it can also be exciting and bring the fun back to your work.

You are not the average person. you have certain skills that people want!

Remember you are not the average person, you are not worried about career growth, you have already begun to lower your stress levels I hope and decided what new skills or volunteer work you are looking for.

Your future is created when you begin to build a plan and taking the time to work in entry-level positions or doing an online course can be just the route into your new career in project management as one example.

In my own experience receiving testimonials on LinkedIn is absolutely key as is also understanding the corporate strategy of the corporations you would like to work for and should also be a part of your job search.

Career transitions are not easy at times, although taking time to listen to informational interviews such as the ones on this website will really help you to move beyond the issues that you perhaps may have from the past.

Nathaniel Schooler and Bobby Umar discussed:

Dealing with uncertainty when looking for a new career

How can you deal with the uncertainty of transitioning careers?

One way to deal with the uncertainty is to focus on your personal brand. Make sure that you are seen as an asset–someone who is valuable and in demand. You want to be seen as someone who is knowledgeable and skilled in your industry.

Showcase your skills and abilities on social media and in your interviews. Stay positive and upbeat, no matter what is happening around you. Remember, transitioning careers is not a permanent decision, so don’t let the uncertainty overwhelm you.

Dealing with overwhelm in life

Dealing with overwhelm in life can feel impossible at the time, this is where resilience helps. Resilience is the ability to bounce back after a traumatic event or series of events. It is the ability to keep going even when you don’t want to and it is the ability to pick yourself up after you have been knocked down. Developing resilience takes time and practice, but it is well worth the effort.

There are several things that you can do to help develop resilience:

1. Practice self-compassion. When you are feeling overwhelmed, be kind to yourself. Don’t berate yourself for feeling overwhelmed or for not being able to handle everything. Recognize that everyone feels overwhelmed at times and that it is part of life

2. Take the time to breathe and perhaps take a break, talk to someone, whatever you are going through it is possible that you can get through it, you have managed 100% of life’s challenges so far, those are good odds don’t you think?

Personal branding to manage uncertainty

If you focus on your personal brand, you will become an asset that companies want to hire for a full-time job. You will be seen as someone who is knowledgeable and skilled in your industry. You will be resilient and able to bounce back after a traumatic event. You will be able to keep going even when you don’t want to.

Whatever job opportunities come along, thinking of other careers and a new job in a new industry can be really refreshing. Especially if you have the relevant experience. Just make sure that you update your LinkedIn profile. Get really good at time management and spend your free time looking for that ideal new career move.

Just think there are so many jobs that aren’t even created yet! You have such a high chance to succeed it is really an exciting time to be alive.

Nathaniel Schooler


Well, I’m really quite happy today. Actually, I’ve done a few interviews and Bobby Umar is my last guest today, which is great. And we’re going to talk about handling your career transition despite the uncertainty, which is going on and Bobby, it’s a real pleasure. And I’ve seen you on social media. That’s kind of how I found you.

You’re one of the most influential people within my sphere, certainly on, certainly on Twitter, you are a professional speaker and coach Inc 100 top leadership speaker five times TEDx speaker as well. And you’re the CEO of Discover Your Personal Brand, which I’m very, very interested in. And yeah. Thank you.

Welcome to, oh, hello. That’s great. How old is your daughter?

Bobby Umar


She’s nine.

Nathaniel Schooler


Super mine is turning nine in a month and a half. Great. So that’s super, so yeah, I mean, it’s a very difficult, very difficult time right now. We’re all kind of stuck at home. We’ve got, we’ve got multiple pressures coming at us from, from all angles. Right. And you know, hopefully I’m sure you’re going to share some great value with people today on how to kind of deal with this uncertainty. It’s tough. Right?

Bobby Umar


Absolutely. In fact, I just did a livestream this last night, or I’ve talked to people about the three biggest challenges during, during this whole COVID pandemic, which is, you know, the first one is uncertainty, right? So uncertainty with our jobs and certainty with the work, if the uncertainty, with how I home-school my kids and uncertainty with the health of people, I mean, it’s just a very difficult time.

And the other two issues that people are having is the overwhelm factor, which is an overwhelm of information overwhelm this information and overwhelm of tasks and things to do, whether it’s work or house related or personal related. And then the third one is just the mental health, you know, managing our mental health and our mindset and our wellness as we’re going through this, I think is to be a huge, huge challenge for us.

So all three of those things that are a big challenge for a lot of people, and we’re all going through a similar journeys, but also in our own way. And so it’s important to understand first acknowledge that fact and, and then, you know, try to find ways to help people cope.

Nathaniel Schooler


Yeah. I agree completely. I interviewed one of the top psychologists in Australia last night around this very, very subject. And it’s very difficult. You know, every day is different. I ran a poll on LinkedIn and I asked people for four. I said, well, what, what are you feeling right now?

You know, and I gave him this choice of these four, four different emotions and, and, you know, some people were kind of feeling worried. Some people are feeling excited, even, which was, which was an interesting one, very different. I wasn’t really expecting so many people to vote excited. Some people voted, let me see. It was excited. What else? Confident was another one. Quite a few people were confident. And I was hopeful. I, lot of people voted hopeful. I’m I’m hopeful, quietly hopeful, really. And, but it’s, but I mean, it’s, it’s just unchartered territory, isn’t it? And that’s nerve wracking isn’t it on, on its own. But, but, you know,

Bobby Umar


I mean, I can tell you that, you know, I’ve been an entrepreneur for 15 years as a professional speaker. And so I can certainly handle some uncertainty. I’ve been let go from jobs many times I can handle that uncertainty. I’m a parent. I can handle uncertainty so I can be resilient, but I can tell you that this has been something that has definitely thrown me for a loop many times. And I often say, well, you know, I don’t usually have bad days, but I have bad hours and I recover quickly, but yeah, it’s hard.

And but that’s another reason why, you know, it’s important for us to, you know, have the tools, have the support have means to try to figure out how can we we’ll navigate through this, whether we’re trying to figure out how to reposition or replay or re or pivot our career, or just even just to change our lifestyle and to change our priorities and values in terms of what’s important to us because we’re also questioning our values. And so just from that aspect itself, we are now evolving as people, as communities, as a society to determine what’s important to us long short-term. And long-term, I think that’s a question we will have to ask ourselves.

Nathaniel Schooler


It does make you take a long, hard look at yourself and what makes you happy. Right. And, actually, I mean, used to play a lot when I was a child in the woods and on my own and with my brother and, you know, and we so, so cool. Cool. So, so, you know, I kind of, I like being alone. I mean, I live on my own. Yeah. My daughter lives with her mother, but I’ve been sort of doing some schoolwork with her nearly every day on, on zoom. And that comes with its own problems. Yeah.

Because the children are very worried, they’re stressed. And she wrote, she wrote, wrote something about this earlier in a, in a document she shared with me. Yeah. So it’s kind of like managing your own problems and your own stress, but then trying to almost encourage other people as best you can, even if you’re not feeling your best. Right. All the time, it’s a very difficult, it’s a difficult balance to be hard. Right.

Bobby Umar


Absolutely. Although I have learned over the years that you know, a better me is a better everything else. So if I can take care of myself, I’ll be a better parent. I’ll be a better work. I’ll be a better coach and speaker. So, these are things that I some, and again, in the overwhelm of COVID I can tell you that there were times where I forgot this, where I didn’t take care of myself. I wasn’t even asleep. I wasn’t taking care of my body. And so, you know, it’s something that we must be mindful of all the time.

Nathaniel Schooler


Yeah. But it’s, it’s very different now because, you know, I mean, I used to get up at 5:00 AM every day, got up at 5:00 AM. I did two hours. Tai-Chi internal strength training every morning. Yeah. I did that for, I don’t know, eight years. Yeah. I’m still training now. But the problem is, is that I don’t sleep as well. The sleeping has been disrupted, but last night I was so tired. I didn’t even hear someone crashed into a car outside the front of where I live. Wow. Like someone knocks on the door earlier and said, oh, did anyone hear anything? And my window is even slightly open. I didn’t even hear that someone had crashed into a car. Right. That’s how tired I was last night. Yeah. So, it shows you that all these days of broken sleep and worry, it kind of adds up. And then, and then, you know, you either, you either can’t get out of bed for a few days or you, or you, you kind of struggle to function because you get up anyway and drink coffee and then that doesn’t help.

Bobby Umar


And I’ll give you another example story from my personal one, which is, you know, I was having trouble sleeping too. You know, I typically have a hard time going to sleep. I’m always thinking about everything. And so, it takes half an hour to fall asleep. And so, and I also know that our kids were acting up and acting out and getting out of control. So, we had a family meeting and we just talked about, went around the table, and talked about her feelings. We’ve talked about how, you know, we were effective. And, you know, I shared feelings of guilt for not being able to keep up with parenting or keep up with their schoolwork.

I keep up with my business or whatever. And everyone’s shared my kids, my eleven-year-old, my nine-year-old, we did that. And then the other thing is I started and we started going out for hikes and walks because we wanted tomorrow, the last two to use doing that. And I can tell you in a lot. And then also I started doing better health stuff. So should be more tight and eating less, no more sugar and less carbs. And I can tell you right now, like the last week I’ve been sleeping. Great. It’s actually been really good. So yeah. You know, but it was, and I don’t know whether it was the emotions, or it was the food, or maybe comedies the nature, but knew all those things to,

Nathaniel Schooler


Well, you know, they say that that word is sort of abbreviated word snafu. Have you heard of that? Sure, sure. Situation normal all left up. Right. And that’s kind of, and I think, I suppose we’re just getting used to that. Right. You know, but I agree with what you’re saying about looking after yourself first, because you can’t help anybody else. If you’re not, if you’re not really functioning correctly first, I mean, I, I spoke to Mike Tobin about this. He’s a big supporter of mine over the past few years, and co-host a few of these episodes with me. And, and, and he said something which, which really rung true to me. He said, you know, on an airplane when you travel, it says, put the oxygen mask on first. Right. Right. And, and, and, and that’s really stuck with me in, in, and, and, you know, and I’m finally starting to be able to help other people now with a bit of encouragement and this show, you know, and trying to help others to not necessarily become successful but become successful in their own eyes.

Nathaniel Schooler


Yeah. Because it’s not about, it’s not necessarily linked to money is success. That definition of it has changed for me anyway, over the years, you know, I used to think, Aw, becoming a multi-millionaire, that’s what I want to do. And now I just want to be happy. Like, you know, that’s kind of where I’m where I’m ending up now. I’m just like, well, you know, I enjoy what I do every day. I talk to great people like yourself and, and that’s, that’s wonderful. Yeah. And I get to exercise and eat right. Eat right. And everything. But it’s, I suppose, just helping people right. To, to move ahead in their lives. Yeah. And building a personal brand that does that and has a purpose behind it has a message behind it is, is very powerful. Yeah. And, and it gives you so much more reward. The, the feeling that you get when you, when you perhaps share a blog and it meet really means something to not only you, but to your audience is so exciting. It’s great. They’re really great.

Bobby Umar


Yeah. I mean, you know, what I can say from my story is that, you know, I was what I would call a loss leader. You know, I had first, I was an engineer, I was in teaching. I was doing performing arts, was doing brand marketing and I never really found I fitted in, and I felt kind of lost and stuck in my career. But the moment I build my personal brand and kind of identified my top five to 10 brand elements and the things that I cared about, my values, and interests, I was able to find three things from it. One was certainly more alignment of the things that are meaningful to me that align with who I am and can be more of a sense of purpose. I was able to find more focus on my life in terms of clarity, direction, around what I wanted to do.

Bobby Umar


And then ultimately those two things led to create more impact and more success and results and legacy. Any of the success that you, you talked about? You know, I define success based on being on fulfilment. I create, so in my life. And so is what I look for. I’ve tried to get fulfilment all my life from my work to the people, my family, things like that. But that’s what personal brand really helped me do back in the day when I first, you know, dived into it. And it has served me ever since. And then, you know, and then the other thing that’s exciting is that once you identify that purpose and that, that path is going to get you excited, fulfilling the rest of your life, you want the rest of your life to start right away, and you get really excited. And, and, and so, you know, I wake up every day knowing what my purpose statement is. Well, my wife’s statement is deals need in terms of everything I do for, you know, talking to people like you would talk to my kids and talking to the world. Yeah. It’s really, it’s really fires you up.

Nathaniel Schooler


Yeah. For sure. And it keeps you focused as well. And I mean, I’ve seen a lot of people over the years, and I’ve probably done it myself. Yeah. Like, I, I started off probably being self-employed like 12 years ago and having various jobs in the beginning and, you know, ending up not being able to make any money and going to the job centre and getting a parking ticket, parking outside on my motorcycle in the last recession. I never forget that. Right. I was getting £35.16 a week. Yeah. And I got a parking ticket. It was like 50 quid. Yeah. And the pavement was wide as well. And I parked right next to the wall. Yeah. And this, this parking attendant, it was just laughing, just, I saw them walk off and I was like, but it’s, now it’s a cool story to tell. Right. So, it’s about those stories, isn’t it that you, that you, that you tell and the kind of pain and then how that pain gives you empathy for others, compassion for others. Yeah. And this kind of thing. And I get like, I get that. Yeah. I get that. Your brand, your brand reflects that in how you conduct yourself. I think the way I read you as an, as an individual. Yeah.

Bobby Umar


Yeah. Thanks. And I think sharing stories about the struggle and the challenges of throat, everything that I’ve done, I think is a great way to, you know, be more relatable and be more authentic. I mean, people resonate with vulnerability, and I think that’s an important thing. Like, no, one’s perfect. I really don’t like brands that position itself as everything’s perfect and hunky-dory, and I’m not awesome. And you know, I know parts of me that are awesome. I built what parts, where I can be awesome. But I also know that I struggle with, and some people say, well, why don’t you do that? Like, why do you think stuff look bad? No, I’m being real. You know, like, I think it’s way better to, to be like that. And just show who you show up, show up and show who you are. And the stories are a great way to create a really

Nathaniel Schooler


Oh yeah. A hundred percent. And I just studied a LinkedIn story, a storytelling course the other day. Yeah. It was so hard. It was brutal. Absolutely brutal. This course. Yeah. It was hard. Why was it hard? Well, I sat there for the whole day. I mean, the course was 58 minutes. Yeah. But that was just the course. Yeah. Like you have to do work in between modules. Yeah. It was the homework. I did it in day. Yeah. This court kill me like on Sunday to look after my daughter for the whole day. And I was just drying Monday. No, nothing tone. No, no. One’s home. Yeah. Monday. Really?

Bobby Umar


Yeah. And it’s funny because people don’t want to do the work. Like I have a personal branding course that there’s like 25 videos that total like 90 minutes, but it’s the homework. Right. And the homework is 30 hours. You can book a month for this. It’s not going to happen overnight. Right. So, you know, people don’t want to do the work. And I think, you know, it’s like, it’s like a resume whenever you update your resume, you know, five, 10 hours. But it’s important because it’s an evolving document and similarly work in your brand or work in your career or whatever, whether you’re trying to pivot or transition what they were trying to do, it takes time. It just can’t be like, well, I’m going to go this way. No, no. It takes time and effort. My, my personal, my experience when I did it back in the day, it was actually around three to six months of interviews and talking to people, I did a very, a long version of this kind of slow, slow burn to figure it out. But yeah, after six months I had a much better sense of where I wanted to go.

Nathaniel Schooler


It’s, it’s, it’s a crazy process when you go through, I mean, I, I went through, I went through a personal branding process with one of my old mentors and he was brutal. Yeah. He was brutal. Like, cause he’s a barrister. Yeah. So he’s a lawyer, but also a brand marketing guy who became a barrister. Yeah. And there was no bedside manner. It was just like brutal mentoring for like two or three years with this guy. Right. But, but those kinds of people with the time-honoured processes that I’m sure you’re using. Yeah. You know, you talk to the five elements to, to your brand. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. The same kind of thing. And you know, there are a lot of people out there that are doing, doing the personal branding and they, they like, yeah, come here, I’ll do personal branding and they don’t know what they’re doing. And, it really annoys me. Yeah. You know, and I think it takes a lot of time and effort to build your personal brand and get the wording right. In the first place. And everyone thinks, oh, it’s all about a picture. It’s all about a logo. And it’s all about an image. Well, it’s not really, it’s about the words before that as far as I’m aware. Yeah, yeah,

Bobby Umar


Yeah. Yeah. And you know what, like the reason why my start-up is called discovery personal brand is because personal brand is broken down into three main areas, which is the discovery piece, which is where you have to dive in and do the work and the analysis, get the feedback and all that stuff. And then the next phase is the designs. And that would look at your assets and your abilities and what you want to build for yourself and your target objectives, things like that and strategy. And then there’s the delivery of personal brand. But the reason why we focus on business discovery because that’s the area everyone doesn’t do, they don’t take the time to invest in that actual thing. So it becomes a, it becomes a big issue for a lot of people who don’t want to commit that time and energy. So that’s why discovery is so important.

Nathaniel Schooler


Yeah. 100%. And what’s really funny is, is when you talk to people, when I went into personal branding, I did a few personal brands and realized I didn’t really want to do personal branding for people. Yeah. But I did a few. Yeah. And, and I remember I helped, I helped to chap called John Lawson to, to do his personal brand. He’s like the founder of e-commerce association in the U S and we went through his whole history and it was so interesting, you know, and it turns out like, when you go back to people’s history and it’s like, oh, I got, I got kicked out of school for being a DJ. And like, and then I, and then I went, and I studied at night school worked really hard and then essential hired me. Right. And like, but, but until you talk to these people that they don’t, they don’t tell you about these things.

Nathaniel Schooler


Yeah. But then, but then, but then it’s like, how personal do you want the personal brand to be? I mean, that’s the, that’s, that’s always the challenge, isn’t it it’s like, you, you, you almost need a, a kind of software tool that says, well, okay, over here is friendliness. And over here is not friendly. How, how friendly would you like your personal brand? And then you just push a button, and it says, okay, these are the words you need to use. And it’s like, that’s kind of, that’s kind of where I think it could end up. Yeah. Really in the wording side of things. Yeah.

Bobby Umar


Again that’s usually what a coach will do to help hone that. But I mean, I think that what’s important is that personal is better than anything else to being personal. As you know, it’s more, you, it’s also, it’s also, if you make it more who you are and attend to who you are personally, and about your first story, then it’s less work and effort on your end to be that it’s very easy to be yourself and to be something you’re not. So don’t bring them, make a brand that’s not based on yourself, make, make a brand is based on you. And I think, and people resonate that if, you know, you are related to your, to your stories and, and, and doing, you know, doing a good job of that.

Nathaniel Schooler


Yeah. Well, I know you’ve been doing a bit of comedy and I, and I, and can you tell me a bit about that? Like, I’m sure there was something coming. You you’ve been doing some comedy stuff or am I just, I’m not confused. I know we didn’t prep on this. Right. So I know, and you’re like, what the hell is he talking to me about this for? Yeah. But like, I’m, I’m interested in that because I think it’s, I think it’s great. I think it’s great. Yeah, really.

Bobby Umar


I mean, for years, I used to perform musical theatre and I used to play comedy roles. I became part of a sketch comedy troupe. I also trained in second city improvisation. And so, I was part of a sketch comedy troupe called beat the brown, where we did ethnic based comedy. And it was a lot of fun. And, you know, it adds to my delivery on stage to be funny and do jokes and tell stories. But yeah, it was great training because it trained me to be adaptable and improvise. It trained me to, you know, tell great stories and listen to people, but also to, to try to find the fun, you know, so yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun and certainly one of my path was performing arts, but, you know, I never, it never really panned out, but it certainly adds to how I am as a presents,

Nathaniel Schooler


Super, but that’s, but that’s totally relevant right. To our conversation because if we bring it right back to the, to the personal brand, yeah. We bring it back to the career worries and the stress of perhaps a career change. Yeah. It potentially, right. All of those skills that you have learned throughout your entire working life have now ended up exactly where you are at the right time to be able to deliver what you’ve decided you want to deliver in the way you want it to deliver it. Right. And they’ve given you the skills. Yeah.

Bobby Umar


Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that, you know, people, if they do the work again, it’s all doing the work. If you just, I know, man,

Bobby Umar


We’ll be able to get the results that you want, but it’s just people don’t not willing to do the work, but certainly it’s benefited me in terms of what I’ve been doing. And that it’s great to see when I’m able to help other people find that, that, that clarity and that purpose and direction to go on that path. But yeah, but you got to do the work.

Nathaniel Schooler


Yeah. I’ve got a friend in North Hollywood. Yeah. And, and he, he was, let me say he was executive vice president for Wayfair entertainment. Like, you know, a big job in the movie, in the movie world. Yeah. He’s a big cheese in the, in the movie world. Right. I think that’s what he is now. Actually. Yeah. He is at Wayfair now, but he was at Lionsgate before then. Yeah. And, and interesting. His personal brand has just gone crazy. The past, the past three or four years, he basically became a preacher African-American guy living in Hollywood became hugely successful and then became a preacher and, and helped to build a church. Yeah. And he’s got like three kids, you know, it goes to the gym pumps, those awaits pumps himself up. And he’s just his personal brand is so freaking cool. Yeah. It’s actually brilliant. Right. And, and, but that has become like part of his story and, and he delivered a sermon when I was in California last year and his message was do the work. And that way, believe me, that was his message. And came out of that sermon. And whenever anyone talks about doing the work. And it’s just some kids in my head. Right. I’ve never been to a gospel church before, but I tell you, it was just like incredible, absolutely incredible. Yeah. My,

Bobby Umar


And you know, what’s interesting is that every, I like to say that everyone has a story, you know, I think it’s important to incorporate every aspect of your story, your life into your brand. So like, you know, the person who is a nano technologist, but also yoga busiest, there are ways to create a brand story around, around both those things. People say, what should I do to different brands, different profiles. You want to talk about all the things they’re all about. There’s a way to create that story. People understand, like we have other interests, no matter how diverse they are. And you know, if you, even, if you can tell them that you’re the cryptocurrency enthusiast that also does yoga, like, Hey, that’s fine. Now. I think, I think it’s really great to make it all part of story, because everything you’ve done your life, cumulates into your brand, your values, your story. So if you can incorporate that, then by all means, I think,

Nathaniel Schooler


Yeah. I think, I think that there’s a lot of hope out there really. I think, I think people should be hopeful, but you’re right. Like doing the work there’s no, there’s no substitute for that. Yeah. And the problem, excuse me, the problem is that the stress and the worry can make us paralyzed. Like we like you, you can, you can actually just turn around and go, I can’t do anything because your brain is almost gone back to some kind of like caveman kind of mentality of, of, of being on the edge. Right. So I, for me, it’s a matter of just exercising, trying to eat the right foods, talk to the right people and, and try and move in the right direction. Yeah. So I’m just trying to hone my skills around my video, making storytelling or the marketing skills that need to improve continually to make you better marketing yourself and marketing other people. Right. So what do people, what do you think around that kind of thing?

Bobby Umar


Well, sorry, I’m not clear. What’s

Nathaniel Schooler


Around, like, what do people, what do people do to like get away from that stress and worry, and, and almost that, that mentality of they can’t take any action because they they’re so stressed, they can’t even move from kind of thing.

Bobby Umar


Yeah. Well, the first thing to understand is that overwhelm is something that, you know, and overwhelm leads to burnout and both those things are what lead to inaction, right? So when you’re overwhelmed and you see, well, these are the 20 things I should be doing. And when you think there’s a list of, let’s say having a list of 20 things, it’s even harder to start with the first one, because there’s just so much stuff in your head. Now, one of the ways you can deal with that of course, is take that list and break it down into smaller steps or, or take on three things today. And if I just, the other day, you know, my, my daughter was overwhelmed with, she had to watch a 41 videos of her teacher, 57 videos of the other teacher. And I was like, and she was kind of overwhelmed.

Bobby Umar


And I said, you know, let’s just start with two one-on-one of each and see what happened. And then by the end of the day, she’d watched 11 or so, you know, break it down to those small what’s that one or two small things you can do today to get you through stuff. The second thing to think about is, you know, asking us support group, go talk to people, talk to friends, call a friend, call your mom, and just have conversations about, you know, here’s how I’m feeling and feeling overwhelmed because I find that we are often too afraid to ask for help. And we’re often too, too overwhelmed to realize that we have this great support network that is there for us if we need it. And so I think that works really, really well. And then I think the third thing again, goes back to the brand new thing.

Bobby Umar


Once again, once you have a clear path, purpose and alignment of who you are and what your purpose is, then you wake up every day knowing here’s what I’m going to be doing. So even when I get overwhelmed, I still have a few things that I am able to do that day to get things done. And then the last thing I’ll say is, you know, what, when things go bad, like I talked about having garden dark hours, dark days, just forgive yourself, you know, to later, later in the day as a new afternoon, tomorrow’s a new day. It’s totally fine. We’re all going through this and the, but we all need to be mindful that you know, that we can step up and do something else the next day.

Nathaniel Schooler


Yeah, I agree. I think that’s really great advice, really great advice. And obviously if you’re really rock bottom, you need to find a professional and speak to a professional. I mean, we’ve got all sorts of kind of helplines and things like this with the NHS at the moment over here where people can phone up. And so just search and Google and kind of find, find a professional, right. Because, you know, we can’t be giving any advice for depression and stuff like that, but I think what’s really important is working out that actually it’s normal to be up and down. And that’s, what’s, that’s, what’s really quite a positive from the situation that I’m taking away is that actually as humans, we’re all going up and down all the time. Right? Like we might be unhappy one moment and sad the next dry, I mean, and, and happy the next. Yeah. But it’s like actually the sad moments make you appreciate the happy moments, more, that’s kind of how I’m, how I’m looking at it.

Bobby Umar


Well, I think that the, I think this whole situation is, is pushing and accelerating the fact that we are now re-examining our lives. And we’re seeing things like a, the amount of time I’m spending in my career and not many time my kids is out of whack. And so me and my job that doesn’t fulfil me, even though I’m working from home. So maybe change things, we’re looking at our health and our wellness. Cause we’re thinking about this, the science behind, you know, being healthier from, from food and exercise, but also dealing with the pandemic. So like we’re thinking about those things. We’re also thinking about the environment because you know, now that people were not spending as much money, we’re not going out as much, not traveling as much, the environment is actually doing better than we’re thinking. Maybe we should change things around its environment. And at the same time, we’re also seeing that people are struggling out there and there are lots of protests and a racial injustice. And so there are bigger things in this world that we need to think about. And so it’s, it’s really, it’s forcing and accelerating the re-examination of our lives across a whole fundamental areas. And I think, I think that’s a really good positive thing.

Nathaniel Schooler


Yeah. I agree. And also the digital disruption, I mean delivering a two years worth of digital transformation in a matter of two months. Yeah. It’s been just what people needed. I mean, they sorted out these archaic institutions that actually, we’re just, eh, we don’t want to go digital. And they really were just in a mode of slackness. I’m sorry to say that, but I agree and wrapped up with this rubbish bureaucracy of just ridiculous people that have got no clue whatsoever. Well, sorry, guys, this has made you do something and it’s the best thing that you’ve done because you’re saving people time and effort. You’re saving resources, you’re saving. I mean, just to talk about the national health service in the UK. Yeah. They’ve done an amazing job with that. Right. And you know, people now don’t need to go into, to, to the doctor.

Nathaniel Schooler


They can speak to them online. Right. And that’s just fantastic for, for, for, for, for everybody really, you know, but I’m overwhelmed from day-to-day. I go up and down, you know, depending upon the workload that I have and, and the people I speak to and stuff, but I think you’re right talking to talking to mentors or family or friends is, is, is, is so important. Yeah. It really, really is. But also, what you said about personal branding. Yeah. I think also it gives you, it can give you a real self-boost for self-esteem when you, when you look back over your whole life and you look back over your last five years, perhaps you might not have even noticed some of the wins that you’ve had. And when you’re forced to put your personal brand together on paper, it, it almost like it’s like, wow, I remember doing that. And, and sometimes we don’t even, we don’t even celebrate the wins because we’re too stressed with, with our daily lives. Right.

Bobby Umar


Yeah. And what I’ll also say is that, you know, when I take people through my kind of process, there’s also a feedback mechanism and as well as an online assessment piece. So when you go through that process, you look at the stories of your life, the things that are meaningful to you, and you start to see things that like, wow, okay. I remember that story from five years ago, 10 years ago, two years ago, but then you get feedback from your network, and they will start saying, oh, you know, one thing, things I loved about Jill or about Jack is this, you know, I didn’t realize that. Or I see this as, as his or her strength and they do the online assessment. And then you find, oh, these are my three strengths. I never thought of myself. And what it does is it really empowers you and motivates you.

Bobby Umar


These are things about me that are great and that people appreciate. And that whole process can be extremely empowering because when, when an online assessment and your own assessment and your feedback, or your network all say, Bobby, you’re a people guy, Bobby, you’re a nurturer, Bobby, you’re a performer, that’s empowering it validates, you know what I am. And so based on that, I was like, well, let me, let me follow a brand where I can do those three things, which is why I became a speaker. So that type of a process of, of understanding that stuff is really great.

Nathaniel Schooler


Super. So when you’re speaking, do you speak about leadership? Is that, is that what you speak about in corporate leadership or,

Bobby Umar


Well, originally I really started talking about leadership and software and engagement, things like that. But then eventually over the years I started developing three main topics. One was authentic connection and networking was one, the second one was personal branding. And the third one was so social media and digital influence, but I kind of packed them all into one thing, which is what I call thought leadership. Right? If you want to become a thought leader and build a thought around, around your experience, your expertise, you know, you dive into yourself and connect with your personal brand and you connect with others, which the networking you had with the world, which is digital. And that’s how you can recreate impact for yourself. As you try to replay,

Nathaniel Schooler


It’s quite exciting, how we’ve all sort of become we’ve become the media. Haven’t we we’ve, we’ve, we’ve sort of, I mean, David Mathison, he’s like the author of what was it BE The Media. He wrote this book a few years ago and he started the CDO summit and the CDO group, which is chief digital officers summit. Right. And he said that years ago, but also Seth Godin wrote a book, which the Icarus deception, I don’t know if you’ve, if you’ve read that one, but it, it talks about how you basically build your audience and you create content for your audience, and then the audience builds towards your content. It’s really quite exciting that you can, that you can attract your tribe. I mean, he talks a lot about that. Yeah. And I think that’s, that’s, it’s fun. Right. And that’s, what’s so great about the, the digital age that we’re in. Yeah.

Bobby Umar


Yeah. And especially when you start, actually, once you’ve determined your brand and you start putting content out there, that’s around that brand, you start to attract those people and those followers who love your stuff and the resume, what you’re talking about, and that also further validates and re empowers you in terms of what you’re doing and your purpose. So when I get messages where people who engage me, it’s just, it’s just very validating. It feels great.

Nathaniel Schooler


Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Very much. So it’s like a positive momentum that your audience is, is, is, is helping you to sort of build,

Bobby Umar


There are two parts. One is the positive momentum and empowerment of what you’re doing, but also the other one is there is the feedback and evolution of things. So as people give you more feedback, you start to evolve in. So like, you know, for example, now, as we need feedback, I’m starting, I’m starting to get different questions about things. You know, people are not asking as much anymore about how to be a speaker because you know, people aren’t speaking as much anymore. Now they’re asking more about how do I build a better LinkedIn presence? How do I live with my brand transition? And so the questions are changing. So I evolve to, with my audience and they’re, they’re a fantastic crowd source.

Nathaniel Schooler


Yeah, yeah. Very much. So what I also love to do is to read Amazon reviews. I’m a real geek when it comes to that. So like, like if I’m going to write a blog yeah. I like to go to a book that’s basically written about that topic and then I’ll go to the Amazon reviews. And then I read the reviews from people who are like, complaining about that book or the com or they’re complaining about things that they need to fix and how the book helped them. And then I read all of those and then that helps me with that as well.

Bobby Umar


Okay. Yeah. That’s a good idea. And I thought of that.

Nathaniel Schooler


It’s been a lot of fun, man. I can’t thank you enough for making some time to speak with me. It’s been really, interesting. And so, so what advice would you, would you sort of give to people who are worried, and they need sort of bit of reassurance right now, you know, they might’ve lost, lost their whole career. I mean, they might’ve lost their business. They might have lost everything. Like what, what, what, what would you, what would you say?

Bobby Umar


Well, the first thing I would say is that every single one of you has an experience. You have different experiences; you have stories of your life. And from that you build a seat, a set of skills and attitudes for which you are known for, and that people value in the world will benefit from. So, understand that every one of you has that. The second thing is then if you dive in your brand to figure these things out and how are you going to actually serve the world? You can either, you know, reposition, re-pivot what you’re doing, because now’s a perfect time for you to either build an online presence because that’s, the virtual world is here to stay or a number to pivot. And now start to build an online presence. You know, it’s always good to just get started and build it up. But you know, this is the chance for you to really reflect on that and start building something that you feel comfortable if you feel aligned with. And that’s going to fulfil you the rest of your life versus continuing on a path that you know is not fulfilling or brings a lot of pain and anger and not so much joy afterwards. So this is a chance for you to do it. And there are, there are ways of doing pressure ratings, one way to do it. And I encourage everyone to take the time to invest the time and energy, to pivot, to rebuild reposition and leverage a brand to take your life and your fulfilment to that next level.

Nathaniel Schooler


I agree completely, I think starts from where I’m sitting. I think starting somewhere and thinking, well, you know, the best place to start for me is like, what am I interested in? Like, what am I interest? Right? What, what, you know, who do I look up to and say, well, wow, they’ve got a really cool, or it looks like they’ve got a really cool career. Cause you can’t compare yourself. Cause you don’t really know what someone’s doing. You don’t know. You don’t know if they’re actually paying the bills or not. Right. So, but I think looking, looking at people who are potentially where you may want to end up or that direction is definitely a good way to go. And the kind of things you enjoy doing on a day-to-day. Yeah. Like, I mean, I’m, I’m enjoying talking to people, I’m enjoying a bit of editing video and these kinds of things.

Nathaniel Schooler


So I’m learning about everything that I need to know in order to get other people to do it. Otherwise I have to do all the work all the time, myself, which I don’t want to do. Yeah. So, but it’s, I think from where I’m sitting, learning how to do all these things yourself, or at least what makes them work is the basis for growth. Right? Because otherwise you’ve got to have somewhere to start, right. If you’re, if you’re, if you’re out of work because you lost, you lost your business or you, you, your job changed and you couldn’t, you can’t right now, like you’ve got the perfect time to learn new skills. So it’s like, well, well, what, what makes you tick? Like what do you enjoy in life? And then have a think about what is that job going to exist in, in say five years’ time. I mean, that’s another thing to consider right. Before you, even before you even build the personal brand. Yeah. That’s, that’s where I’m looking at. It really it’s.

Bobby Umar


Yeah. And I, and I think that, I think that’s a good start, but I also want to, I also don’t want to let people say, well, I’m thinking of, you know, this is on the interest me, let me just go down this path. And I think it’s important to do the due diligence to actually do a more thorough analysis of not just your interests, but your values, your skills, your feedback from your network, how people perceive you and do that work to figure it out. But yeah, absolutely. There’s what you can do is see, okay. Where do I like to spend my time? If I, if I have free time, what do I like to do? Well, I like to edit videos. Okay. Well then even there’s something there. I like to do photography. I like to rock climb. So how does this work in terms of how it can guide you along the path and, and you can still continue to start and do work and put stuff out there and explore those interests while you’re still doing the work behind the scenes to build the foundation around your brand. And so a lot of people I’ll say, look, you know, don’t worry about building your brand. Like don’t spend your time analysis and analyzing to death for three months before you launch. You can certainly get out there and put stuff out there and talk to people and engage. And why are you doing the work to build the foundation for what you’re trying to put out there?

Nathaniel Schooler


Very good. CA I can’t, I can’t say anymore. No to that, right. Oh, I have got one comment. Just make sure you’ve got loads of hobbies, because if you’re going to go and work and do your hobby as a job. Yeah. You need to have lots of other hobbies. Otherwise you might be working in your hobby, but if you’ve only got one hobby, you’re a bit stuck on you.

Bobby Umar


Yeah. Well, it’s good to have more than one hobby. Absolutely.

Nathaniel Schooler


But that happens to some people though, doesn’t it? You know? And then they’re like, oh, I love my job, but then it’s all they do. Like there’s nothing else in their lives. Do you know what I mean?

Bobby Umar


So, I mean, I mean, I don’t know I’m going to counter argue this one because I mean, if you’re saying, if, if, if my one hobby was, let’s say I love playing board games. Okay. So if I’m playing board games and I get paid to do that all the time. Wow. That sounds like a lot of fun, like playing chess, for example, that’d be a lot of fun, but we are right. I think we have to find ways outside of what we do. Full-time for work. Even if you love it as a lot of fun to, you know, clear our mind. So, you know, I think what I would say is that there’s going to be something that allows you to decompress, to process and do other things. So I think, you know, if I was a, a chess player and she had played chess all the time, I still would want to take, I was still want to go hiking. I still want to do swimming. I still want to do other stuff. Keep the creative juices flowing. So I understand that. Absolutely. Yeah.

Nathaniel Schooler


Yeah. Hey, it’s been, it’s been an absolute pleasure. I can’t thank you enough. And thanks everyone for listening. And if you want to find Bobby Umar and your course, right. How do they, how do they find you Bobby?

Bobby Umar


Well, I mean, my, my company page is called Ray and the start-up or DYP is called You can also follow me on LinkedIn or across my social channels on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook under the handle, Ray Han, Bobby. And that’s where all my information is, and you’ll find them everywhere, but those are places to find me and follow me and can learn more about me and my course and my offerings across those channels.

Nathaniel Schooler


Super. And I’ll drop some links into the show notes, which will be on the positive personal power.

Bobby Umar


Thank you so much. Thank you.