Podcast Takeover: The Importance of Your Online Brand and Growth Mindset in Times of Crisis

Edited 20/02/2022

During the first few months of COVID – the first lockdown – when all was flipped on its head, I decided to also turn the tables on Nathaniel and find out how he was managing to keep it all together while most of us were clinging to a distant memory of “normal”.

I’m Treasa Dovander, Head of Executive Communications & Influencer Engagement with Ericsson. As the first guest host of Influential Visions Podcast; who best to interview than one of the founders of the show?

Find me here on LinkedIn.

What is a Brand?

“The term brand refers to a business and marketing concept that helps people identify a particular company, product, or individual. “ Investopedia.

In summary we discussed:

1. How to cultivate a growth mindset in times of turbulence
2. Position yourself to take your career or business to the next level
3. Tips and tricks to stay happy and focused whilst working from home

The summary of our conversation, (full transcript can be found below)

• Nathaniel Schooler is the COO of the Legacy Media Hub and an IBM futurist
• In times of crisis, it is important to have a strong digital presence
• There are many good examples of businesses using this time to their advantage
• Nathaniel Schooler has been through many challenges in his life.
• He started his business from scratch in his kitchen and worked hard to get where he is today.
• In the beginning he interviewed Mike Tobin OBE, who shared his own story of success.
• Nathaniel believes that anything is possible if you have the right mindset and are willing to work for it.
• Nathaniel Schooler is a branding expert who has been in the industry for over 10 years.
• He recommends taking any job offer to build self-esteem and advises against looking for a “quick fix” when it comes to branding.
• There are many examples of successful brands online, but authenticity is key.
• Nathaniel Schooler recommends dressing up for work, taking breaks, and getting outside for fresh air to stay productive while working from home.
• He also suggests finding a comfortable posture and setting up your workstation correctly
• Nathaniel Schooler is a work-from-home expert with three screens and a loud keyboard! 🙂
• I am Treasa Dovander, the first Co-host of The Influential Visions Podcast.
• We discuss how to be successful when working from home and so much more.
• Do not miss this interesting conversation that still contains massive value!

How to cultivate a growth mindset in times of turbulence

It’s essential to cultivate a growth mindset in order to maintain your forward momentum. A growth mindset is characterized by a belief that you can improve and learn from your mistakes. This type of thinking allows you to embrace change and look for opportunities in difficult situations.

Position yourself to take your career or business to the next level

Are you looking to take your business or career to the next level? If so, it’s important to position yourself for success. By taking the time to develop a strong personal brand, you can make yourself stand out from the competition. By building relationships with key influencers, you can open up new opportunities for your business or career. And by staying up-to-date on the latest trends and developments in your field, you can stay ahead of the curve and set yourself up for long-term success. Positioning yourself for success is essential if you want to reach your goals and achieve great things. So don’t wait any longer – start putting yourself in a position to succeed today!

The importance of your online brand is underestimated and in this interview Nathaniel Schooler and I discuss the importance of it and he gives a few examples of people from multiple industries who have maximised their online brands.

Really online branding is table stakes now!

Your online presence is more important than ever in today’s digital age than ever. Whether you’re a CEO, marketer, or c-suite exec, it’s essential to have a growth mindset and be actively engaged in your brand. A podcast takeover is a great way to achieve this. In this podcast interview, we discussed the importance of your online brand and growth mindset in times of turbulence, and how to stay happy working from home, this podcast can help you stay ahead of the curve. Stay tuned!

Despite the fact that many of the jobs we will be doing in the coming years have not even been invented yet, online branding is important (some may say even more than ever before) and if you are interested in more information on this you can check out one of the many blogs on the site and you can even reach out to me on LinkedIn.

Tips and tricks to stay happy and focused whilst working from home

Since the pandemic started are you now working from home with no end in sight? Or are you someone who has been working from home for a while, but haven’t found a routine that works for you? Here are some tips to help make your remote work experience more productive and enjoyable.

We would have liked to have talked more about remote working however Nathaniel was so passionate about influencer marketing and personal branding we didn’t have the time on this occasion to discuss working from home in the detail it deserved.

Although working from home can be great – you get to set your own schedule, take breaks when you need them, and save money on lunch. But it can also be challenging, especially if you’re not used to it. We did include a few tips to help you stay happy and focused whilst working from home.

You can also read the full transcript below or watch the video where I put Nathaniel through his paces…

In addition, you can always look at The Ultimate Guide To Personal Branding To Win and Personal Branding When Working For A Corporation.

Treasa Dovander

00:00:04

Welcome to the Influential Visions Podcast. I’m your new host. I’m taking it over from the very famous and renowned Nathaniel Schooler who is going to be actually my guest today. Now Nathaniel is the COO of the Legacy Media Hub. He is a valued business analyst and also he is an IBM futurist, but who am I? Well, my name is Treasa Dovander and I work in social media at Ericsson, but I’m a former broadcast journalist and watching the Nathaniel brought back some memories and I thought, well, wouldn’t it be fun to turn the tables and do a podcast takeover. So let’s see if we can get behind the orange shirt and get to the real heart of who Nathaniel is. Welcome, Nathaniel to your own show.

Nathaniel Schooler

00:00:53

It’s painful. I am feeling the pain really.

Treasa Dovander

00:00:57

We haven’t even started yet is going to be fun. This is going to be fun. So there’s a couple of topics I’d like to discuss with you. I know a little bit about your background. I know your Dad has been very influential in your career, but I mean, if we look now at what’s going on around us with the coronavirus and the pandemic, everyone, and I mean, everyone is online, your digital presence for your person, your own personal brand and for your company is of utmost importance. Those who don’t have a digital marketing strategy are fastly learning. That it’s vital. You agree with this?

Nathaniel Schooler

Yeah.

Treasa Dovander

00:01:40

So then if we look at that, my question to you then is can we discuss the importance of your online brand now in times of crisis and beyond, tell me what have you seen out there that gives you hope that people have got it right? Where are you seeing good examples of people using this time, to say the right thing, to be in tune with their, with their audience who they’re talking to, and to really resonate. I’m not taking advantage of the situation, because that is, that can be very explosive for your brand and negatively, but really resonating with what the climate.

Nathaniel Schooler

00:02:23

Well, I think there are a lot of good examples of this right now. I think that you know, it’s really tough for a lot of people and you know, lots and lots of people losing their jobs and they’re losing their businesses probably. But look, let’s be realistic about this, right? People have potentially built businesses that are not sustainable anyway. Yeah. That’s the first, that’s the first thing. And you know, whilst we who sit here with our screens and, and we work online, there are plenty of businesses that are going to be successful and they’re going to evolve. Right? So having a personal brand and a business brand is a time-honoured process. I mean, this has gone back, you know, a very, very long time and all the successful people within each industry, right.

Nathaniel Schooler

00:03:21

Have got amazing personal brands. And if you, if you just look at Nelson Mandela, you look at his personal brand. Yeah. That was, just his personal brand, was amazing. Yeah. And that’s just one example. Right. But a lot of these people, they haven’t designed their personal brand and it is possible. Now I know a lot of people who do brand marketing as in marketing for businesses, don’t like the fact that people are like me know about how to position a person as, as a brand. And there were loads of great examples of, of great personal brands. I mean, if you look at a chat, there’s a chap called Brian. Who’s a six times bestselling author, a personal friend of mine taught me how to write a book, outline to write a book in about, let me see five minutes. You can come up with the title and everything for a whole book in five minutes.

Nathaniel Schooler

00:04:21

And, and me and the other IBM futurists. When we, when we, when we got taken to IBM Amplify, we actually sat down and, and we did this process and it was, it was exhausting. It was absolutely exhausting. Yeah. And there are loads of great examples. If you look at him, you look at, let me see you look at, it depends on what industry you’re looking at because each industry has experts that everyone looks up to and they look at them and they bite their nails and they think, oh, and when you’re not an expert and you’re not, you know, you’re not actually that knowledgeable about specific topics within a certain industry. You know, don’t be afraid to just say, I’m just learning about that. Right? Like, because this is the biggest problem is when people perhaps change industries, they’re scared of changing industries.

Nathaniel Schooler

00:05:12

Right. And that, that will, that will damage, your mindset and mindset is, is really, really important right now. And I also think there’s a guy called Laban Roomes. And so when I launched my first podcast, yeah, the sound was awful. It’s still not that, not that amazing. Yeah. But I learned, I did this podcast interview with him. I’ll never forget it. And I had to edit it. It took ages because the sound was terrible. And, and when I sent it to, I don’t think he was very happy. Yeah. However, he helped me to understand how you can build your personal brand alongside a business brand. Right. He launched a company called Goldgenie and that was on Dragon’s Den. One of the dragons invested in it and they do gold plating. So, for example, if you want to take your car there, you get your car badge.

Nathaniel Schooler

00:06:10

Gold-plated okay. And he turns up with a kit, with some, with the gold and whatever bits and pieces that you need to kind of do that and supplies you with a gold-plated car badge right. In your driveway done. Okay. So what he did in the, in the early stages of his business is he invested in personal branding and he invested in business branding. Okay. So he basically worked from his kitchen for like eight or nine years. He didn’t have an office. Yeah. And he, he used to work in the back garden under one of those little tents. Right. But what was so amazing when he spoke to me, he explained that when you make that decision that you’re going to change career, or you’re going to, you’re going to start a business or you’re going to get a new job or you’re going to do something. Yeah. It’s like, it’s like, there’s a bigger power that exists. Yeah. And you make that decision. It’s like, everything in the world just moves. Yeah. Like, and that’s what Will Smith talks about? Yeah. These inspirational people talk about that. Yeah.

Treasa Dovander

00:07:15

Isn’t it true? That’s the goal growth mindset that everybody’s talking about that you don’t just sit still and accept a kind of a situation. If you don’t have the skills, if you don’t have the knowledge. I think what you’re getting at here is that believe that you can be more and go out and grab it. And we’ve seen that in a lot of successful people, they really believe that they have a vision, and you know, they tell themselves they’re going to be this. And that is the growth mindset that I think is particularly important now in these turbulent times.

Nathaniel Schooler

00:07:50

Very much so. But it’s, but it’s more than that. It’s over the growth mindset. It’s like, look, everything’s going to be all right. Yeah. And if it, and if it isn’t, then you know, you’re going to be dead. Right. So, it’s like, well, either you’re going to die. You’re going to get over it. Yeah. Like that’s kind of, that’s kind of where we’re at. Right. And sometimes in life, like until you’ve hit rock bottom, you’re not even motivated to do anything. Right. Like I’ve hit rock bottom numerous times. In the past 12 years, I changed my career. When I was, let me see about 29 years old to change career. And the last recession, it was awful. I remember right. I had this cool Triumph motorcycle at the time.

Nathaniel Schooler

00:08:38

It was a T595 Daytona. So it’s a 950 CC. Triple. Yeah. It’s fast. Right. It looks a bit like a Ducati. Okay. And it was red and it had this number plate and it said it had 595 in the number. That’s how freaking cool it was. So, and I road this thing to the job centre. Yeah. And I remember that point. I can’t remember how much money I was getting from the job centre, but it wasn’t a lot. And there was this big wall right outside the job centre. Yeah. And I, and I thought, I’ll be smart. I’ll park on the pavement right next to this wall. Yeah. Save myself. You know, the reason I took the bike and not my, my girlfriend’s car was because it’s saved money. Right. Parked on the pavement. And I never forget, I got a ticket from a parking attendant.

Nathaniel Schooler

00:09:23

Yeah. But this pavement was like seven foot wide. Yeah. Like a blind person or a woman with a baby with a triple push chair could walk down there. Yeah. And I got a ticket, and I came out of this job centre and I saw my bike and I was like, I was really angry. Yeah. And I was just, I was absolutely mortified that this ticket. Yeah. I think it costs me like 60 quid. Yeah. And at that point, I think job seekers allowance was like 36 pounds a week or something like, you know, what can we do anything with 36 quid a week? Right. Like really. And so at that point I got battered and battered and battered in many, many times the past few years, sometimes it’s by business partners.

Nathaniel Schooler

01:10:11

Sometimes it’s by clients who are, who are over demanding, don’t pay their bills on time. There are a number of different things that have stressed me out. And, but I’m alive. And each one of those steps in my life has brought me to the next stage where I am, you know, I’m really helping other people to understand that they can get through it. Yeah. And you know, like I interviewed Mike Tobin OBE yesterday. Who’s just phenomenal. He went to the south pole to an expedition last January, just gone. Yeah. They, they raised half a million pounds for a charity that he was working with him. He grew a business from, from 6 million pounds to an exit of 3 billion. Yeah. And so, he’s basically been a guest on my show since I started. Yeah. And he’s the non-executive chairman for Audioboom, which is, which is basically one of the largest platforms for hosting.

Nathaniel Schooler

01:11:12

Big shout out to you guys. I’m just changing. I’m just changing to Audioboom in the next few days. So had one more, really, inspiring story. And so at this point I remember it was really tough. Yeah. And my wife had just had a baby. And so I was driving, driving along in her car. And basically, one of my friends used to run a cider company and he, he, he flashed me in his van and he, and he pulled me over and he asked me, he said, he said, oh, you’re very posh chap called James Lane, lovely character. This Gospel Green cider is what, what he makes. And it’s a, it’s a localized bottle, fermented cider, like in a, in a Champagne style. Right. And, and he basically says, oh, what’s your hourly rate? No, Nathaniel, how much do you charge? And I stood there for about, it felt like an eternity.

Nathaniel Schooler

01:12:14

And I thought, oh, I don’t even know what my hourly rate is because I’ve been on a wage for the last 15 years or, you know, whatever it was right. Since my first job out of college in the, in, from the wine industry. And, and I said, I said, oh, it’s 10 pounds an hour. Right. And, and he said, well, I’ll see you, the, the cider barn in the morning. And, and we’ll do some work. And I got there eight o’clock. Right. And he killed me absolutely annihilate to me because I was putting this hand on this machine. So when you, when you ferment cider has a secondary fermentation in the bottle, so what you have to do is you have to take the plastic cap out after you’ve turned the bottle upside down and all the muck from the yeast and dead sugar has dropped to the bottom.

Nathaniel Schooler

01:13:05

And you turn the, you re it’s called riddling in the, in the wine industry, in the bottle round. And then all of that junk that you don’t want in the bottle goes to the top of the bottle, which is, can stop. So now. And what happens is then you take the plastic cork out and you top it up with something which could be sweet. It could be a, a black currant, or it could be something to change the flavour of the whatever drink you’re making. Yeah. So, I was standing there and he had 1950s or, or forties machinery, right. This is machinery. That is, it’s not going anywhere. Yeah. But you must pull the handle. Right. So, he was part, I never forget it. He was taking these, these stoppers off and all the, all of the junk was flying out. And then he’s passed me this bottle after he’s topped it up.

Nathaniel Schooler

01:13:53

And then I was, and then I put the, put the, put the cork in, pull the handle, and then the cork is compressed. And it goes into the top of the bottle. Yeah. Then I pass it, pass it over to the next machine, which puts the, puts the cap on which spins around and pulls all of the metal together. And it, and it compresses this cork compresses, the foil that, that goes on the top of that. So woke up after the first day it was murder, absolute murder. And also, my back hurt because you’re putting the handle with one hand, which is you’ve ever, you’ve had a desk job. You’re not used to this. Right. So, so that’s what I did. And then I went the next day to work for him and it, and it was, it was murder to move in these boxes and all this stuff. But do you know what the point of that story yeah. Is just

Treasa Dovander

01:14:47

Want I ask you, what is your point to people today who may find themselves unemployed or may find themselves down and out over the current situation,

Nathaniel Schooler

01:14:57

Take whatever job you’re offered and the reason you need to take that job. Yeah. It’s because you need to boost your self-esteem. Yeah. You’re sitting there, you’ve been made redundant. You’ve lost your business. Yeah. You need to take whatever there is. And you need to build your self-esteem because without your self-esteem yeah. You can build a personal brand. You’re you, you, you will feel inside. Like you don’t know anything. Like you’re a failure. Yeah. Too, beyond that feeling of being a failure. Yeah. And helpless. Yeah. Helpless. Right. You’re not going to be able to build this brand, which is going to take everything to the next level, everything.

Treasa Dovander

01:15:43

And there, there is a name for that. I think it’s called the imposter syndrome and it impacts absolutely everyone, not just somebody changing their career or doing a pivot to something they’ve never done before. So, everybody suffers from it. So that’s a good point to remind people that it is something that everybody’s suffers gets through. You get some experience behind your belt and then you, you move on. So back to the topic of, of today, how do you position yourself to take your career to the next level? And I mentioned earlier that there were some good examples online now. I mean, in times where there’s so much turbulence, I think leadership is, is key to show. You know, you understand this is also a form of branding, but in the, in another sphere, you understand, you resonate with, with the situation you acknowledge the situation, you feel the pain of frontline workers.

Treasa Dovander

01:16:44

You feel the pain of those who, who are without jobs, core, you know, working from home parents who have to juggle children on jobs. I mean, there’s a lot of people right now impacted in many ways, but the ones who really connect online and resonate online are authentic. They acknowledge the situation. They go straight to the point. They’re considerate. They’re quite generous with their advice. And I know we’re going to talk about some tips and tricks later for working from home. But I mean, are there any other like examples or highlights that you’ve seen lately that kind of spring to mind?

Nathaniel Schooler

01:17:30

Well, I actually don’t think that branding, first of all, is not a fast fix. Yeah. It’s not a quick fix. It’s taken me, you know, best part of 10 years to build my brand. Yeah. And along that journey, I’ve positioned it and repositioned it and changed slightly to appeal to just the right people. It’s a very laser targeted approach. You know, if you look at each industry, there will be people that are excelling. So for example, there’s a dentist called Rahul Doshi. Yeah. And I did some social media work from him before him in the early days of my social media business that I was attempting to build, which was, you know, on my own, it was difficult as a freelancer. And he was a fantastic client, but he basically worked with the BACD which is the British Association of Cosmetic Dentists. Yeah. And he became the chairman. So, you can, first of all, you can create one of these trade bodies. You can go and you can work within a trade body. You can offer your services for free. Within that trade body. You can create content.

Treasa Dovander

01:18:46

You can create your podcast…

Nathaniel Schooler

01:18:47

Podcast, but standing there in your books or shorts, talking about what you’re doing, your exercise routine or your Facebook, first of all, is not helping you whatsoever. You need to grow up and act your age. That’s the first thing. Yeah. If you don’t know something, don’t freaking talk about it. Yeah. It really annoys me when people talk about something they don’t know anything about. So one of my friends, he told me, he said this to me years ago. He’s like, look, if you don’t know anything about it, just don’t talk about it. And that’s basically where I’m at now. I’m just not interested in engaging with topics I don’t know anything about if I don’t know anything, then I will go and I will study that topic in order to have a meaningful conversation about it.

Treasa Dovander

01:19:28

Yeah. On the other side of that, I’m just thinking nowadays everybody’s a journalist, right? Because everybody can self-produce content, be it on a blog, a medium blog and Twitter, Facebook and Instagram and Snapchat and Tiktok. We’re all producers of content. And I think that’s where people get the error that you just highlighted, that it is a personal brand, that they are actually, you know, projecting out there and everything they do will be, there’s a digital footprint. And the first thing, if you apply for a job that somebody will look at is your Google. And they’ll see, oh my gosh, this person has a Facebook account or Snapchat. Yeah. Just to be fully aware of how you come across and making sure that you are true to yourself, authentic, consistent with your messaging, consistent with your posting. I’m not going to take advice from a dentist talking Tai Chi, but I might take advice from a dentist talking about the latest dental treatments.

Nathaniel Schooler

02:20:39

You’ve just reminded me. So there’s also in the Tai Chi world. For example, if you want to be taken seriously, you got to go and have a fight. If you want to, if you want to become the world famous, Tai-Chi master you going to have a fight, right? I mean, that’s what Dan Docherty, who’s the Scottish guy in the UK. He’s the president of a chairman of the British Tai-Chi association. That’s what him and his Kung Fu brother Sifu Tong Chi Kin did. They both entered the full contact Southeast Asian open style four contact tournament in 1982, I think 85, both won gold medals. Dan Docherty knocked out this guy. So, he decided he was going to go into the open weight category at the time. I mean, he’s, Glaswegian so explains a lot, but he basically was only 14 and a half stone at the time.

Nathaniel Schooler

02:21:28

And he decided he was going to go up into the open weight category to fight any way, any style can enter you on a raised platform, off the ground of like five or six feet for four or five feet. And he fought this guy called Roy pink and Roy pink was about 20 and a half stone. This big, big African guy. Absolutely massive can talk to get on the platform. And Roy pink kicks him in the stomach and Dan Daugherty flies off the platform and lands on his back. And he got back on the platform and he knocked Roy Pink out in three punches. Yeah. And, and without Dan Dougherty, the UK Tai-Chi association. And I, you know, I wouldn’t know Tai Chi and I wouldn’t have connected with, with, with Sifu Tong Chi Kin without his personal brand.

Nathaniel Schooler

02:22:24

I went all the way to Guatemala to go and seek him out. Yeah. Because the knowledge that that man had was, was different to the stuff that I was learning through my teacher who was a student of Dan Docherty’s. Yeah. So, and then he gave me permission to teach like internal strength, exercises, and stuff, which very few people are allowed to do that in the UK because it’s like a closed school kind of thing. So, you need to just think what makes you different? Yeah. Why are you better than anyone else? You need to explain what the hell you do in words that people understand, because that’s the biggest problem. And you need, you need to, I mean, it’s all on my website. I’ve written so many blogs about personal branding, but I’m going to give away a copy of my digital book until this, this crisis is over.

Nathaniel Schooler

02:23:13

What, as soon as I get let out. Right. And I can go to Poland to see my girlfriend, I’m going to stop giving away that book. Yeah. But I’m literally going to put that on a landing page, which you just put your email in there and that will go just directly to those people. I’m not planning on spamming them. I might send them some resources and stuff, but so that will be on the influential visions.com a website somewhere. I’ll do this episode and yeah. And I’ll, and I’ll drop the link most definitely. But you know, I mean, I think the, the next topic we could talk about another time, if you’d like, because I know you’re pressed for time up to you. If you think you can fit, it in

Treasa Dovander

02:23:59

Tips and tricks for working from home, number one ghetto as if you are going to work, get dressed, it’s psychologically, it’s very important. Otherwise, you’re in your pyjamas and you just don’t feel like it’s work day. Number two, schedule breaks very important. I’ve put them in my calendar and try and take those breaks with some colleagues because they also need a bit of cheering up. Number three, get outside of where those are. New cam. I know there’s some restrictions, but fresh air is so important. Even just to walk around your house and, and change, go for a cycle, just change the vision. There’s some of mine. Do you have any to add

Nathaniel Schooler

02:24:44

Posture? Get you set up your desk if you’re not used to, well, I’m not having a go at you. We’re trying to be that distance from the screen or whatever. But, you know, I mean, I think first of all, get your, get your laptop set up. So, it’s at the right height for you. Yeah. Ideally get a screen or two, I mean, I’ve got a desktop machine because I need extra computing power. Yeah. I was just sick of the slow rubbish laptop. So, my buddy, Eric built me, this, this machine is ridiculous. Yeah. So

Treasa Dovander

02:25:14

There’s a meme going around actually that, you know, men working from home, they have the three screens, they have the loudest biggest widest keyboard. They have the latest digit.

Nathaniel Schooler

02:25:27

I’m just

Treasa Dovander

02:25:28

Seeing your screens and I’d make me laugh. And then the women, the women are sitting on a couch with the legs folded and a cup of tea with the smallest computer.

Nathaniel Schooler

02:25:39

Yeah. I drink plenty of water if you’re depressed and you’re stressed and you’re worried, take a break, take some exercise, sit and meditate, read the Bible, whatever thing that you do that helps you calm down. Take a bath. Yeah. You know, but not with the computer though.

Treasa Dovander

02:25:56

No, no, no!

Treasa Dovander

02:26:03

Goodness.

Nathaniel Schooler

02:26:04

There, there, there are absolutely loads. I mean, we could, we could, you know, I’ve done a few episodes, I think probably four or five days ago. I did one a bit about working from home, but the tips that you provided as well, I mean, people are gonna get a lot of value thing most definitely from yeah.

Treasa Dovander

02:26:23

And there’s loads actually online. There’s a lot of people sharing their advice right now, which again is great personal branding. So if you’re in that space, be sure to check it out. I work from home if you haven’t before. Well, I suppose I’m wrapping up now because I’m the lead host. So I’d like to thank my guest, Nathaniel Schooler and the Influential Visions Podcast. It’s been a pleasure. It’s been fun. Getting a little bit behind the scenes, and into the thought process that, you know, creates you and your growth mindset and positioning for the future. So, thanks for sharing that with us.

Nathaniel Schooler

02:27:05

Thank you. You’ve been, absolutely super. Thanks for listening. Please make sure you share this episode with your friends and business connections too. And don’t forget to drop us a review wherever you listen. Thank you.